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CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THE DEATH OF COLONEL JIMMY SABO

Tom Valentine's guest on *Radio Free America* (Shortwave, 5.065
MHz, mon-fri, 9 pm cst) on November 14, 1994 was private
investigator Gene Wheaton. Mr. Wheaton has been looking into the
suspicious death of the late Colonel Jimmy Sabo. Following is my
transcription of that interview.

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[Awesome sounds of John Phillip Souza's "Stars and Stripes Forever"]

ANNOUNCER:
It's *Radio Free America*, the talk show for intelligent
Americans, with your host, Tom Valentine.

*Radio Free America* is brought to you by *The Spotlight* [CN --
Note: Throw mud here.] Call 1-800-522-6292 for your subscription.

And now, the newspaper that "tells it like it is" presents Tom
Valentine.


TOM VALENTINE:
Hello, everybody! Welcome back to *Radio Free America*.

We're beginning the week with a *bang*, right now, by recalling a
guest, a man who's been a guest on this show a couple of times.
He is, he's an *extraordinary* guy, he's an investigator. He came
here before to talk about the crash of the aircraft at Gander,
that killed so many young Americans in the military. And he put
it together... That was one of the few air crashes in which the
evidence, instead of being combed through, was buried as fast as
they could possibly bury it.

Well, we have another mystery. And my guest is investigating that
mystery. I want to welcome back to *Radio Free America* Mr. Gene
Wheaton. Hi, Gene.


GENE WHEATON:
Hi, Tom. How ya doin'?


VALENTINE:
I understand that you've got another story that you're lookin'
into now.


WHEATON:
That's correct. I'm looking into the murder of a Marine Corps
colonel, Jimmy Sabo(sp?), out here in the Marine Corps air
station at El Toro, in 1991.


VALENTINE:
I had read that that was a suicide!


WHEATON:
That's what they wrote it off as. However, we have conclusive
medical, scientific evidence that the man was murdered.


VALENTINE:
All right.

A lot of people have no idea, even though I understand this was
on ABC's "Dateline", or somethin' like that, television...


WHEATON:
..Connie Chung's show.


VALENTINE:
Connie Chung did it [the TV show, *not* the murder -- CN]. A lot
of people don't know a thing about it, including me.


WHEATON:
O.K. On the 22nd of January, 1991, between 8:30 and 9:00 o'clock
in the morning, Colonel Sabo was found shot to death in his back
yard, in the housing area of the Marine Corps air station at El
Toro, California.


VALENTINE:
So this is quite awhile ago. It wasn't just something that
happened recently.


WHEATON:
No. It's... The investigation initially was closed down real
quickly, calling it a suicide. A year later, while I was
investigating the Gander crash, the family contacted me and asked
me to assist them. And I've been working on this since the spring
of 1992.


VALENTINE:
So when you were on this show before, you were already in the
midst of this one.


WHEATON:
That's right. And it's an ongoing investigation. I've been called
back to Washington by the commandant of the Marine Corps to brief
his staff. I've been called back to the Department of Defense and
the Pentagon to brief them on it. And it's a heavy case,
involving covert operations that are sort of renegade that some
Marine Corps units got involved in, that would cause a scandal if
they became public.


VALENTINE:
I see.

Gene, before we go any further into this thing, how about your
background, your military background and so forth.


WHEATON:
I've served in the Marine Corps, the Air Force, and the Army. And
I was a police officer in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I'm a retired special
agent with the Army's Criminal Investigation Division, retired as
a chief warrant officer, from the Army. [I] served in Korea,
Vietnam, Iran, Italy. I have a degree in police science, and a
masters in public administration. I teach some criminal justice
courses to police officers out here in California.


VALENTINE:
All right. You've "been around"; it's pretty obvious, then.

Let's go into this. This then is not necessarily a CIA or a Mena,
Arkansas-type thing.


WHEATON:
No, not necessarily. There *are* some inter-relations to the
operations going on in Mena, Arkansas. As we got into this case,
we found that civilian contractors were flying in and out of U.S.
military bases and using the protection of legitimate flights to
conduct some illegal operations. And the Marine Corps air station
in El Toro happened to be one of those bases.


VALENTINE:
Now how'd you determine that?


WHEATON:
Well, it was a long, tenacious investigation, as I said, that's
still going on. A surprising thing that came out last year was
that 32 C-130 Hercules aircraft have been pilfered out of U.S.
military channels, and funneled through the Department of
Agriculture to civilian, covert operators who used to be part of
the old southeast Asia, "Air America" [CN -- notorious as a front
for CIA drug smuggling] crowd. And they get sweetheart contracts
to haul weaponry around the world, and then their tail numbers
are cleared so that they can come back into the United States
without clearing through customs, landing at military bases and
civilian airports. And they're allowed to run their own,
privatized, smuggling operations to help support their little
airlines, between government flights.


VALENTINE:
Amazing stuff! And somebody fairly high-up has to approve this.
Of course, the fourth-floor bureaucrats could do this without
anybody knowin' it, couldn't they?


WHEATON:
Yes. It's a networking of a covert operation sub-culture of a
very small group of people that are implanted in the CIA, the
State Department, and the National Security Council, and the
Pentagon.


VALENTINE:
And you've run into these people before. We haven't got any time
for you to comment on it, but we'll bring you back to that point.

My guest is Gene Wheaton, as you heard, [an] investigator with
excellent credentials. I'm Tom Valentine, this is *Radio Free
America*.

[...commercial break...]

All right, we are back, live. This is Tom Valentine coming at ya
from *stormy* southwest Florida.

Out in California I have Gene Wheaton as my guest. Gene is
investigating the... Well I guess it's not necessarily a case, or
something that has got a *name*, does it, Gene?


WHEATON:
Well, it does have a name. It is the... We have briefed the
Department of Defense and they have re-opened an investigation
into the thing. And it is into the circumstances surrounding the
death of Colonel Jimmy Sabo, the number 3 man at the Marine Corps
air station at El Toro. He was a Marine fighter pilot in Vietnam,
28 years in the Marine Corps. [He] had a distinguished record
there.

And when I got into this, I stumbled across the covert operators
to the extent that it rattled headquarters in Marine Corps up so
badly, that the commandant invited me back to Washington to brief
his staff on it.

After I finished briefing the staff at the commandant of the
Marine Corps, I went to the National Institute of Health and
various government medical agencies in Washington to get some
expertise on the circumstances around a shotgun blast to the head
of a man. And I needed the world's top forensic pathologists and
the top respiratory pathologists, to study the autopsies and the
death photos, to determine whether this man could've actually
killed himself or not.


VALENTINE:
And those experts agreed that he could not have.


WHEATON:
That's correct. The shotgun blast blew out the *pons medulla* and
pulpified the cortex of the brain and severed the spinal cord.
And yet we have a major bruise, like a goose-egg bump, on the
back of his head where he had been struck. And the shotgun blast
destroyed all of the capability to breathe, and yet we can prove,
through the aspirated blood in his lungs, that he breathed blood
for several minutes after a major injury to his head. But before
the shotgun blast went off.


VALENTINE:
Mm-hmm [understands]. So he got clubbed and then shot.

There was a CIA fella who was found with a gun, and it was almost
impossible for him to reach the trigger... I believe over in
Australia, the famous Nugan-Hand. I think it was, was it Nugan?
Not Michael Hand. Michael Hand is still alive. But Nugan was
found dead. And the investigators there say, well they don't know
how he could've killed himself with that rifle.


WHEATON:
That's Frank Nugan, of the Nugan-Hand Bank, which was a
laundering bank for narcotics money comin' out of southeast Asia,
out of Laos and Cambodia during the covert war there. He was
found shot to death in his automobile with a high-powered rifle,
and he had former CIA director Bill Colby's business card in his
pocket. And a huge amount of that money, $150 million or so out
of that bank, disappeared and has never been accounted for.


VALENTINE:
Yes, and Michael Hand has never shown back up.


WHEATON:
That's right.


VALENTINE:
But he's still alive!


WHEATON:
Yes, I'm sure he is.


VALENTINE:
And he's probably got an alias and he might be listening right
now [laughs].


WHEATON:
[unclear]


VALENTINE:
Yeah, well it's a bad world out there. There's an awful lot of
things going on.

So this fellow, Colonel Jimmy Sabo, evidently, he got wind of
something going on.


WHEATON:
Yes. The week before he died, the inspector-general himself, of
the Marine Corps, General Hollis Davison(sp?) and his staff, came
out to El Toro to investigate the activities of Jimmy Sabo's
superiors. However, this was the result of a whistleblower
operation where someone was "blowing the whistle" on contractor
aircraft getting sweetheart deals for hauling weaponry to the
Persian Gulf War. And the people above Jimmy Sabo deflected the
inspector-general away from themselves and tried to get Jimmy
Sabo to take an administrative reprimand and retire, to "take the
rap" for his superiors.

He refused to do it. And the night before he died, he had a major
clash with his superiors, and stated that he was going to, the
next day, "blow the whistle" on the illegal, covert operations.
And the next morning, he was found dead.


TOM VALENTINE:
Now who are his superiors, then? These guys have to be under
suspicion.


GENE WHEATON:
Well they were. The commanding general and the chief of staff
were both forced into retirement over this thing. And...


VALENTINE:
That's a pretty easy way out!


WHEATON:
Oh yeah. Well it had to go quietly because there was such a
scandal involved in this whole operation.


VALENTINE:
Yeah, but you see what a strange country we have? We get a *huge*
media coverage over some females complaining about being
manhandled in a hotel with a bunch of Navy fliers, and it covers
the media for months and years; we get some men who are killers
and murderers and dope peddlers and everything else, with a
Marine Corps uniform, and we don't get any coverage.


WHEATON:
Well that's the, the turning the American public's brain to
cottage cheese so they don't look at the big issues. One of the
major covert operations these guys in Washington had going (and
again, this is sort of the "lunatic fringe"; it's not the
mainstream people. Because the mainstream CIA and Pentagon people
do not agree with what's going on.) They set up an operation
called "Operation Screw Worm", built this secret airbase down on
the Mexican-Guatemalan border and were moving weaponry down to
Peru, and being... ostensibly to furnish to the Peruvian
government to fight "Shining Path" revolutionaries and the drug
smugglers. But in fact, when the consignments would get down
there, the covert operators would break 'em up, *sell* *to*
*both* *sides* to *keep* agitation going and to *keep* the
business of covert operations and weapons movements viable. It's
the entire covert operations sub-culture, and the movement of
weapons around the world. And these paramilitary, low-intensity
conflict operations are *strictly* *business* with these men.
It's...


VALENTINE:
..I...


WHEATON:
They don't want to go back home and run a 7-11 store.


VALENTINE:
I've heard that story so many times. And it's so true, I believe.

My guest is Gene Wheaton. The subject: the death of Colonel Jimmy
Sabo, and the Marine Corps base at El Toro being involved, and
this kind of drug smuggling operation. I'm Tom Valentine, this is
*Radio Free America*.

[...break...]

We are back, live. We're talking with Gene Wheaton, [an]
investigator that's been a guest on this show before and probably
the most credible of among all the investigators into the
corruption that we've found in this country. Gene, I have to say
that, personally, I find you one of the most credible in the
country. And I certainly respect what you are doing.


WHEATON:
..I appreciate that.


VALENTINE:
Now. If anybody wants to join us out there, you can call in --
questions, comments -- 1-800-878-8255. You don't *have* to, but
if you'd like to, you may. 1-800-878-8255.

Before I go any further: 32 C-130 planes. That's a lot of big
planes. And how big is a C-130?


WHEATON:
Well it's the *huge*, 4-engine, turbo-prop that you see, painted
olive-green, that goes into war zones all over the world. It's
the work horse of the U.S. military.


VALENTINE:
Yes, and it carries an awful lot of cargo.


WHEATON:
It can haul tanks. It can haul, I don't know, 50, 60, 80 thousand
pounds of cargo. It's the *real* work horse, going clear back to
the Vietnam War.


VALENTINE:
And they cost a lot of money to build.


WHEATON:
They cost over $10 million to build. And even these used ones
were worth well over 5, 6, 7 million dollars apiece. And they,
they... The covert operators laundered these through the
Department of Agriculture with phony papers showing that they
were gonna be water droppers for the forestry service. And then
they wrote them off as scrap metal at $15,000 apiece and gave 'em
to the covert operators.


VALENTINE:
Was that ever investigated in Congress? The fact that somebody
laundered this much hardware through the Agriculture Department?


WHEATON:
Yes. Congress... While I was in the middle of the Sabo
investigation, congressman Charlie Rose of North Carolina
contacted me, and asked me to assist his office in looking into
these claims, and sent me the files on them -- which I
researched. And that's how we *tracked* some of these airplanes
*back* to the Marine Corps air station at El Toro, and down to
the Gulf War. I've photographed half a dozen of 'em out here on
the west coast for the congressman.


VALENTINE:
Was Mr. Hasenfus in one of them?


WHEATON:
No, Hasenfus was in a C-123 that...


VALENTINE:
..Oh.


WHEATON:
..came out of the same group. But that was years before. These
all were stolen between 1988 and 1991.


VALENTINE:
Oh, these came in the Bush watch.


WHEATON:
Yeah. And there's a whistle blower pilot up in Oregon, who has
filed a whistle blower lawsuit, who can, you know, recover a
certain amount if he discloses corruption and loss of funds for
the government. That case has been in federal court under seal,
and it was just unsealed in the federal court in Portland,
Oregon, Friday, November the 4th. And he and I have been sharing
information on this case. And he's testified before the
congressional committees on them.


VALENTINE:
I'd love very much to have *him* come aboard as a guest, because
this show is heard in Portland, Oregon.


WHEATON:
I think that he would be willing to do it. And his name is Gary
Eitel -- E-i-t-e-l.


VALENTINE:
Well I will get that contact from you, off the air. I appreciate
it very much.

So. We know that Jimmy Sabo was murdered. Are we going to be able
to level any murder charges?


WHEATON:
Well, the... After I went back to Washington the second or third
time and briefed the Department of Defense, Criminal
Investigation Service, and the inspector-general's office, they
re-opened the case. But it appears, on the surface, that they're
more interested in, I guess you might call it "damage control" or
limiting the embarrassment to the government. Because the last
time they were out here, two or three weeks ago, they sent a team
out to interview me, they interviewed people here in southern
California. They went up to South Dakota and interviewed Colonel
Sabo's brother, Dr. David Sabo, who is a world famous neurologist
(and he's my client). And they refused to discuss the
circumstances of the murder, for 2 days interviewing him, and a
day interviewing me, stating that all they were interested in was
what we knew about covert operations and who our sources were.


VALENTINE:
Well that, that is a real tip-off! Isn't it?


WHEATON:
Yes, it is. The sad thing is, the head of that team is a 30-year
friend of mine who served with me in C.I.D. [Army, Criminal
Investigations Division], and now he's a civilian in D.O.D.
[Department of Defense] that has to serve his civilian masters.
So he's...


VALENTINE:
He's not very happy with what's going on, is he?


WHEATON:
No, he's not. But he's limited in what he can do.


VALENTINE:
Gene, I understand (and you're a fellow that's close to this), I
understand that there is a great deal of "resentment" (for want
of a better word) among truly patriotic, hard-working Americans,
who have been watching this kind of thing for years and years in
the government.


WHEATON:
That's absolutely true. In fact, when I first got involved in the
investigation of the Iran-Contra affair, it was because a group
of very dissatisfied Pentagon officials and CIA officers came to
me (as I was already retired from military), and they were *in*
the service of the government and they said, "We can't do
anything or we will destroy our careers and hurt our families.
But will *you* do it for us?" And that's where I networked in and
started my investigations of all this stuff.


VALENTINE:
Yes, you have been in it a long time.

All right! My guest is Gene Wheaton, an investigator
*extraordinaire*, if the truth be known. Probably knows much more
than he can tell. 1-800-878-8255, if you'd like to join us. I'm
Tom Valentine, this is *Radio Free America*.

[...commercial break...]

O.K. We are back, live. My guest is Gene Wheaton. He is an
investigator. He has had many, many years of experience, and
plenty of credentials to do what he does.

And you actually got recruited by military buddies of yours when
you were *out* of the military. And [you] started lookin', back
in the days of Iran-Contra.


WHEATON:
That's correct.


VALENTINE:
I remember the last time you were on. You said something about
helping "The Opponents for Ollie North". Well Ollie North got
beat. Can you take any credit?


WHEATON:
I certainly sit back here very pleased that he got beat. I... The
man is part of that "lunatic fringe". I equate him to corporal
Adolph Hitler, before the German government was taken over. They
really want a secret police state! He and his little fringe group
that he runs with. And I, I did what I could. They started a
disinformation program about 30 days before the election, to try
to get the national media to stop talking to me. But I was in
there working, to the last day.


TOM VALENTINE:
Well I understand that.

Now, when you began investigating the Iran-Contra affair, then
you ran into Ollie North right off the bat.


GENE WHEATON:
That's right. In the actual beginning, '85, you know I didn't
have any objection to covert operations, as long as they were in
the interest of national security and were legal and
congressionally approved and conformed to the Constitution. But
within several months, the folks I mentioned who asked me to help
'em started feeding me information about renegade operations,
about the theft of billions of dollars worth of taxpayer paid-for
weapons out of U.S. military stockpiles and NATO stockpiles being
sold, and the money being stashed in off-shore bank accounts: the
weapons going to both our friends and our enemies, just to keep
turmoil going in the world; and laundered drug money being used
for covert operations.

In the beginning, I thought the contractor pilots were cheating
on the National Security Council and Ollie North's people, and I
briefed CIA director Bill Casey and Ollie North's staff and the
Pentagon people, in early '86.


VALENTINE:
I'll bet they were really surprised that somebody was tellin' 'em
what they were doin'!


WHEATON:
Yeah! [laughs] I was a little naive. They said, "Oh, really?" And
then they all denied being involved. And thinking that I was only
one guy out there, they told me if I thought I could expose it,
to go ahead. So [they] sorta "threw down the gauntlet". But it
wasn't just me. It was a large group of patriotic people that
were helping me, and we...


VALENTINE:
A lot of those folks ended up in jail, did they not?


WHEATON:
Well... The wrong, not many of the *right* people ended up in
jail! There was...


VALENTINE:
Well I thought some of these guys who blew the whistle and ended
up in jail were pretty much on the right side.


WHEATON:
There were some people who ended up dead; some ended up in jail.
But the ones who *should* have been in jail are the ones walkin'
free today. [CN -- i.e., many of Wheaton's informants, the
"whistleblowers", were either murdered or imprisoned. But the
actual guilty parties avoided justice.]


VALENTINE:
Isn't that how it works.

No, I was thinking of... There was a fellow, named Martin, who
called me from jail in the south side. There's a Customs agent
named "Ayers(sp?)" who went to jail trying to put the figure of
the drug operations and the drugs and guns operations of the
Iran-Contra...


WHEATON:
He was a former special forces officer who was working under the
south Florida "task force" of narcotics. That's Brad Ayers.


VALENTINE:
Yes! Brad Ayers, yeah!


WHEATON:
His credibility was destroyed by disinformation, much like they
tried to do mine. The only thing [that] saved me is my strong
family background, my friends, and my military and police
reputation. But Brad really had a rough time, and is *still*
having a rough time.


VALENTINE:
Yes. In fact, I've known about Brad for many years, and we were
neighbors up in St. Paul, Minnesota. And I will be... I've never
brought him on as a guest! One of these days I may let him tell
his whole story. It's a hair-raiser.


WHEATON:
It certainly is. He's got a major, major... He had to fight
through the legal system in a lawsuit to try to obtain records
out of the CIA and Customs and U.S. Marshalls Office about bad
stories that were spread about him. He's got the documentation
now. I think he's taking some legal action.


VALENTINE:
Yes, he's tryin'. That's why I'm sayin' I'd like to get him back
on the show.

Now we had a character that came on this show; his wife came on
this show many times. He is said to be still in prison, over in
Austria, but *I* believe he's sittin' there, countin' his money
-- and that is Gunther Russbacher(sp?).


WHEATON:
Yes... I've avoided getting involved in that thing because I know
very little about him. Plus, I don't... The problem with Gunther
Russbacher that I see -- he's called me 2 or 3 times, while he
was in jail, but I've never met him...


VALENTINE:
Uh-huh [understands].


WHEATON:
..and I would try to pin him down on things. But like a *lot* of
guys involved in the covert operations community, these guys, as
part of their trade, are pathological liars, and they will
intermix the truth with fiction. When the truth would help 'em,
they will still tell you a lie. And he had so many conflicting
stories that he was saying to me that I couldn't determine
whether he was real or a phony. So I...


VALENTINE:
It drove ya nuts, didn't it!?

Yeah, he even... Uh, Ross Perot tried to get some facts out of
him and couldn't do it.


WHEATON:
I understand that. Yes.


VALENTINE:
Yeah. O.K. Now. I'm gonna ask your opinion on one of 'em. I
believe that Inslaw, [the] theft of that software, is one of the
biggest crimes in the history of American government. Right up
there... Iran-Contra are all part of it. And I'm just wondering
if you've had any, run across anything of that Inslaw case.


WHEATON:
Well, I have. Early on, Bill Hamilton contacted me. And I've had
several meetings with him, back in Washington, and gave him a
little advice. It's a very convoluted thing, but it was one of
the biggest rip-offs by the U.S. Justice Department and the
intelligence community [that] I have ever seen in my life. Every
time a judge ruled in his favor, that judge lost his job.

I know the people who actually sold his software overseas. And
I've given that information to him (I don't want to discuss it
over the air). But...


VALENTINE:
Yes. I understand.

I'm still following the Inslaw case. And of course, I've had
another one, just like Gunther Russbacher, in Michael
Riconosciuto!


WHEATON:
Some of them, I think, may be covert operators that just can't
distinguish the truth from fiction. And some of 'em are "ringers"
that they send in on you just as confusion people, so that you
don't know which way to go.


VALENTINE:
Aren't they good at that.

All right. My guest is Gene Wheaton. Subject: investigating the
kind of corruption that goes on in our government. If you'd like
to join us, 1-800-878-8255. I'm Tom Valentine. This is *Radio
Free America*.

[...commercial break...]

All right, we are back, live. My guest is Gene Wheaton.

You know, Gene, I'm sitting here as a journalist and a co-author
for many, many people; I'm saying, "Have you arranged for your
book yet?"


WHEATON:
[laughs] No. I'd have to write it as fiction. Nobody'd believe it
as the truth!


VALENTINE:
I think maybe you and I'd better talk. Because I have worked with
people before on this kind of book, and *yes*, we should talk.
You're *not* fiction. And I think people who listen can tell
there's credibility here.

Fred. Picayune, Mississippi. You're on with Gene Wheaton.


FRED:
Hello, Tom! Nice to talk with ya. And good afternoon... Colonel,
Colonel Wheaton, is it?


WHEATON:
Chief warrant officer.


VALENTINE:
Chief warrant officer.


FRED:
O.K. I helped pull a whole bunch of marines [unclear] the 10th
Corps on the beach at [unclear] back in December of 1950, and so
consider myself a friend of the armed forces, since I was a
member of the United States Navy.

But a question I have for you is, I happened to read a piece in
the Louisville *Courier-Journal*, on the front page, about -- I
guess it was the third week of January, 1987 -- in which a pilot
who had been caught hauling weapons down to, I think it was...
uh, Honduras -- I think it was Honduras -- and was bringing back
loads of drugs!! He said it happened every trip! And he said that
he would normally land on some deserted strip in Florida, in the
middle of the night -- which he was on his way to doing, and he
got word to go to Opalanca(?) [CN -- apparently a military
airbase of some sort]. And he said, "Opalanca! You know what I'm
carrying?!" And they said, "Don't worry. It's all taken care of."

And this was brought up during Oliver North's appearance, shortly
after in, I forget... February, when he first appeared. There
were a group who came into the hearing room with a huge banner.
They unrolled this thing mentioning the drugs, so that the
congressmen could see it. And they were dragged out of the
building right away!

Do you know anything... I was wonderin', could you tell us
anything about that or...


WHEATON:
I was in Washington, D.C. when that banner was disclosed. It was
flown, in the room there.


VALENTINE:
Yeah. *Unfurled* it, huh? [chuckles]


FRED:
..I saw it [unclear]. I was watching the hearings. It was the
House hearings and they, these people walked in. And all of a
sudden you've got this banner stretched out across the room...


VALENTINE:
Well Gene saw it! Go ahead, Gene. Tell us what happened.


FRED:
..and I will hang up and listen.


WHEATON:
Well, there was a... This is just one of several. We have several
pilots, who are former covert operations pilots, that are coming
forward *now* because of the Sabo case and because of the 32 C-
130s. Some of them flew those C-130s. They're just now hearing
about our investigation and it's starting to come out of the
closet.

These guys *were* *patriots*, former military and Air America,
CIA pilots, who were *told* that flying weapons down was covert
operations, and flying drugs back would be "DEA stings". But they
flew many, many missions and no sting operations ever happened.
And then many of them became whistle blowers. Some of them were
put in prison... uh, falsely, with evidence withheld at their
trial, to shut them up.

But we do have, we do have a few of 'em that have come out of the
woodwork.

That particular incident that your caller was talking about was a
DC-6 load of 27,000 pounds of marijuana that was vectored in with
the, by the covert operators, getting the, getting the squawk
signals on the radio to land at Homestead Air Force Base, in
Florida. The pilot of that plane was a guy by the name of Michael
Tolliver(sp?). Mike Tolliver later flew a twin-engine plane up
with a load of narcotics and wrecked the plane when he ran out of
fuel just off of one of the islands in the Caribbean. He was put
in prison, but later was called into federal court in Wichita,
Kansas, under Judge Kelley's court, because of the lawsuit
between the owners of the plane and the insurance company's
claiming it was being used for criminal activities. Tolliver
claimed that the plane he wrecked -- not the one at Homestead,
but the one he wrecked in the Caribbean -- was furnished to him
by the U.S. government and he was hauling narcotics into the
United States for *them*. Now Judge Kelley(sp?) called him up
from prison and put him in front of his court in Kansas, with the
opposition of the U.S. Attorney's office and the Marshalls. And
Tolliver made a sworn statement to the judge, to that effect. The
U.S. government continued to deny any involvement, but a year or
two later, the U.S. government *quietly* paid for that airplane.

Now that's the typical type of thing that... Laundered drug money
is being used for covert operations all over the world, and it is
*not*, I repeat, for national security reasons. It's to keep the
covert operators in business and to keep the international
weapons business viable. And that's the kind of guys that you're
running into.


TOM VALENTINE:
All right. We have another caller, "J.R.", Johnson City,
Illinois. You're on with Gene Wheaton.


J.R.:
O.K. Thanks a lot, Tom. What I wanted to ask Mr. Wheaton was, is,
you know everybody knows what Clinton's up to and his "leftist"
views and everything. And what I'd really like to know is, in the
top echelon of the military, if they try this "national
emergency" or try to bring FEMA in to take over everything (as a
lot of the word is now on talk radio), do you think that there's
enough of the top brass in the military that'll put a squash to
this? I'll hang up and listen for the answer.


VALENTINE:
All right. Gene, I don't know if you would understand the
question. I don't know if it's in your area. But it may be,
'cause you *do* get around with our military. But there's a lot
of Americans who are concerned that our government has a, in
place, "Emergency Manipulation Agency", that could take over in a
crisis and conduct martial law. And we're wondering if there are
people in the military who simply wouldn't stand for it.


WHEATON:
Well I would certainly hope so.


VALENTINE:
Yeah, me too!


WHEATON:
The... 90, 95 percent of the military are extremely patriotic,
loyal American people. The problem is that, in the old days, when
you and I knew what our real military was, the line officers, the
combat arms officers -- infantry generals, tank generals,
artillery generals -- were the key men in the Pentagon. They now,
through this infiltration, have moved civilians into the
Department of Defense who are former covert operators in CIA. And
have moved their proteges, who are military men but have actually
worked on CIA covert operations most of their careers, into many
of the very senior, key positions in the Pentagon. And these guys
answer to their mentors, outside of the chain of command, rather
than up through the chain of command to the commanding general.
And they send orders out to the field, and people have to obey
those orders or be court-martialed for disobeying them.

Now there's gonna be a... There *is* a plan, that came out during
the Iran-Contra hearings, by Jack Brooks of Texas, that...


VALENTINE:
Yeah, but Jack is now out!


WHEATON:
Yes. But he brought it up, but he was shut down when he tried to
elaborate on it during the Iran-Contra. A plan, that Ollie North
drafted, for FEMA to be standing by, and martial law -- when it
was implemented, they would go out and scarf up maybe 300,000 of
the more, more vocal opponents of their plans, and put 'em in
twelve detention camps [a.k.a. concentration camps] around the
United States.


VALENTINE:
All right. We'll come back to that, if you don't mind, Gene. My
last break of the day. My guest is Gene Wheaton. I'm Tom
Valentine, this is *Radio Free America*.

[...commercial break...]

All right, we are back, live. My guest is Gene Wheaton, a veteran
police investigator whose credibility is unchallenged, or
unchallengeable. And he's one of the real Americans. I love to
have him come on this show.

Gene, you were talkin' about Ollie North and FEMA when we had to
take that break.


WHEATON:
That's right. And they set up this program to, they were planning
on some Central American invasions. And if too many American
people opposed it they were going to declare martial law and take
these old military bases that they had designated, around the
United States, as detention camps -- much like they did the
Nissei(sp?) Japanese-Americans during World War II -- and scarf
'em up and put 'em...


VALENTINE:
Well they have not abandoned that plan! They may have abandoned
Ollie, but they haven't abandoned that plan!


WHEATON:
Well the plan is still there, on the books.


VALENTINE:
Yep.


WHEATON:
Jack Brooks was talked down and told he had to go into "executive
session" [i.e. away from public scrutiny] when he brought it up
during the Iran-Contra hearings. But it was still there.

And there is a new Army field manual on civilian affairs/civilian
operations that's "floating around" right now calling, outlining
this very same program.


VALENTINE:
All right. Now we've had a major political change in this
country. And I've tried to point out [that] we're not saved by it
at all. But it's a step in the right direction.

Jack Brooks is typical of the Democrats that were defeated, and
he himself was defeated in this election. But do you think that
there's enough stuff in Jack Brook's head, if he were ever to
tell everything he's learned, it would be pretty heavy?


WHEATON:
Yes. He was the head of the House Judiciary Committee. And the
sub-committee on crime of the House Judiciary Committee was the
committee that held our hearings on the Gandor crash. And he
is... And I also briefed him, his staff, on the covert operations
at Mena, Arkansas.

And incidentally, I know it's not the time to go into it, but
we've tracked the operations of the 32 missing C-130s *through*
Mena, Arkansas. And the same people are running those that were
running these things now. And it's a continuation of Iran-Contra!
Everybody thinks Iran-Contra *quit* with Ollie North and Secord
being exposed. But it actually got bigger because the media
stopped looking at it at that time.


VALENTINE:
All right. Now. We *are* getting out of time. But you will be
back, I am sure. The, the last thing I want to ask you is...
[sighs] I was listening to you and I've lost my train of thought,
but I will get it back.

Essentially, you read the book by Terry Reed, I presume?


WHEATON:
Yes. I know Terry Reed.


VALENTINE:
*Compromised*. And Terry Reed is pretty valid, is he not?


WHEATON:
His book is, concerning events at Mena, Arkansas, is extremely
accurate. I can't vouch for the other things about his stolen
airplane and the covert operations in Mexico that he talks about.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

  [CN -- Regarding the credibility of Reed's book, I have
  recently heard its credibility questioned as follows: (1) I
  called a radio program which featured a reporter from the
  *Arkansas-Gazette*. In the process of challenging him (he was
  defending Clinton), I mentioned Reed's book. His retort was
  along the lines of "I can't really see Reed smoking a joint
  with Bill Casey." (2) A similar disparagement was heard by me
  shortly thereafter on a different radio show, where the
  disparagement went along the lines of "I can't really see
  Reed smoking a joint with Ollie North."

  From the book, *Compromised*, by Terry Reed & John Cummings
  [excerpts only]:

    The governor's invitation had come as a surprise to
    Terry. He would be even more surprised by what he was
    about to see and hear.

    "Bobby says you've got a problem about going to Mexico
    because of the deal with Barry Seal," the glassy-eyed
    governor began. By this time, the smell of marijuana was
    unmistakable.

    Clinton paused for a moment as if trying to sort out his
    thoughts. "I can see your concern. I understand Seal was
    a friend of yours. His death does appear suspicious...
    Seal got just too damn big for his britches and that scum
    basically deserved to die, in my opinion..." {CN --
    Further note that LaRouche et al. have heaped *great*
    *praise* on Reed and his book. This makes me wonder, how
    does LaRouche's newspaper *New Federalist* reconcile this
    paragraph with their unbridled praise for Reed's book?
    After all, LaRouche and friends keep *defending* Clinton
    -- isn't there a contradiction here in that they *both*
    defend Clinton *and* endorse Reed's book? What does
    LaRouche say about "...that scum basically deserved to
    die", a statement attributed to Clinton in a book which
    has received strong endorsement from the LaRouche
    organization?}

    With that, Clinton got up from his chair and went to the
    back of the van, returning with a half-smoked joint. He
    reseated himself. He took a long, deep drag. After
    holding it in until his cheeks bulged, he then exhaled
    slowly and deliberately.

    He extended his arm and offered the joint to Reed. Terry
    shook his head and gestured, no thanks.


  I have been unable to locate any section in which Reed is
  smoking marijuana with either Bill Casey or Oliver North. If
  anyone knows of such a section, please send the relevant page
  number and/or chapter. In the meantime I will keep searching
  through Reed's book for the alleged section.]

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

VALENTINE:
All right, the very last thing: is anything *ever* gonna come of
the Gandor investigation?


WHEATON:
Well the Gandor investigation is the biggest scandal that is
being concealed in the entire 20th century, as far as I'm
concerned. We got 248 soldiers from the 101st Airborne murdered,
and 8 crew members. And Ollie North and Dick Secord and "Buck"
Ravell(sp?) of the FBI, and the administration, *covered* *that*
*up*. We have just come across *new* information, that we may
have to talk about later, that shows that there was some back-
pack nuclear devices on that airplane and there was a *nuclear*
*accident* at Gandor that they didn't want the world to know
about because they were illegally moving nuclear devices through
countries that weren't authorizing this to take place.


VALENTINE:
You will be back, on *Radio Free America*, Gene Wheaton. I sure
thank you for your time today.


WHEATON:
O.K., Tom.


VALENTINE:
And we *will* be talking. All right. Thank you very much.

Gene Wheaton is the guest and, as you heard, there's a *lot*
goin' on out there, and it's not... It's skullduggery. More
skullduggery than we care to even contemplate. It's time it gets
cleaned up, folks. And Americans like Gene Wheaton are gonna help
us.

All right! We'll be back! In the next hour. See you right after
the alleged "news".

-----------------------------------------------------------------

 Brian Francis Redman    [e-mail]    "The Big C"
--------------------------------------------------------------
    Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"
--------------------------------------------------------------

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